Check the thermocouple connection at the gas valveWatch out: also check for lack of combustion air - your heater may include an oxygen sensor that shuts down the system if there is insufficient combustion air - as that risks fatal CO poisoning or poisoning from lack of oxygen in the room. We have no relationship with advertisers, products, or services discussed at this website. Turn off the power.This is the first thing you must do; in the name of safety. Externally a thermopile still looks like a single sensing device. Follow the instructions in the manual or guide for your heating appliance and also review the installation instructions and bending instructions that came with a replacement thermocouple. The thermocouple on gas fired heating appliances is mounted to sense the presence of a gas flame or gas pilot flame. The thermocouple: This component automatically shuts off the gas when the water heater pilot flame goes off. The thermocouple is a sensor that detects when the pilot light is on. Just check the length of the tubing needed. If you are able to light the pilot on the gas fired appliance but when you release the gas control from it's "LIGHT" position the pilot immediately goes out, if there was a good solid flame that was clearly touching and heating the thermocouple, that is, the thermocouple was properly positioned in the pilot flame, and if you are sure that you held the control in the LIGHT position long enough for the thermocouple to heat up normally (30 seconds is plenty), then I suspect that the thermocouple is defective. Thermocouples on heating appliances: this article describes thermocouples, safety devices used on gas fired heating equipment. If this relighting routine does not fix the problem, or if the pilot light does not stay lit, … A bad thermocouple itself can prevent a gas furnace or boiler from working - if you can light the flame at the pilot manually but then the flame goes out when you release the manual gas Sudden drafts. At some point, the burner goes off and the pilot light is also out and I have to light it again. Replace thermocouple (if needed) Inspect heat exchanger for damage and leaks (carbon monoxide safety issue) ... Gas Water Heater Problems & Repair. Before you can actually diagnose and identify that the problem has something to do with the thermocouple, you have to know where it is located. 1. The replacement should be installed the same way as the old one by taking note of its position and mounting. Vacuum, inert, reducing atmospheres, hot processes, eg: plastic & resin mfg. Model S 80 FDF gas fired furnace and similar gas fired heating equipment but this debris clog problem is widespread and may show up on just about any pilot-lit gas fired appliance, even gas log fireplaces and portable heaters. For example do not try to cut or trim the length of the thermocouple. Smith gas fired Direct Igntiion water heater (photo at close left). What would cause standing pilot flame to keep going out . Our photo (left) shows how you may spot the copper tubing of the thermocouple extending between its sensor at the pilot flame of a gas burning furnace and its connection to the gas control valve. Lately it has started acting up. When you're having trouble getting the pilot to stay lit, it could be because the thermocouple needs to be replaced. If you have gas heater problems, or you just want an annual service and or gas safety and carbon monoxide leak detection checks: Call our experts on (02) 8055 3744 Rinnai Avenger 25 Convector Heater Portable gas heater designed for open plan areas. Magic Chef found its way back to Maytag in 1986. Reinstall the Burner Unit. I had to leave the door open to the heater because the connector sticks out too far and when moved the pilot goes out. It is not necessary to remove the burner assembly in order to replace the thermocouple. Then detach the thermocouple from the burner and take it with you to the home center or hardware store to ensure you buy the right replacement. If the pilot light is on but the main burner dosent light? If you still detect a leak after doing this, it is time to call a professional service. This article explains what a thermocouple (or thermopile) is, how these devices work, where they are installed, and what goes wrong with thermocouples. Thermopiles are used to measure temperature without having to contact the object being measured. When the pilot is not lit the gas valve will not turn the gas on. Try the search box just below, or if you prefer, post a question or comment in the Comments box below and we will respond promptly. If your pilot light ignites but won’t stay lit, then the problem is most likely related to your thermocouple, a metal sensor (about the size and shape of a sharpened pencil) that heats up by direct contact with the pilot light’s flame, telling your gas valve that the pilot light is lit so it’s safe to open the valve to let gas flow. As simple as it may sound, you can encounter some problems when replacing the thermocouple. feed valve, the thermocouple is probably bad. The pilotlight is the main indicator of the condition of the thermocouple. Next Steps. The thermocouples used in building mechanical systems are generally type K: thermocouples used in heating boilers, calorifiers, geyers, gas burner applications (flame sensors). This is usually a problem with electric water heaters. A screwdriver will allow you to remove the access cover. If you have a gas water heater, gas wall heater or any other appliance with a gas burner that needs to cycle on and off, there's a thermocouple in your life. Sometimes, though, older — and even newer — units can malfunction. If your heater has a pilot light, then the thermocouple may have failed, carboned up, or just got dirty or corroded. Test thermocouple and gas control valve/ thermostat as described on pp 20-21. Apologies for the delay. It checks the temperature of the flame from a pilot burner, and shuts off the gas supply if the temperature is not sufficient to ignite it. I have added a picture [above] for you. A thermocouple can also serve as a process controller or in other applications outlined at THERMOCOUPLE TYPES. The flame is blue and looks a nice size. gas valve to open if the pilot is not lit. A thermocouple is an electrical device that responds to temperature change by a change in voltage output. A faulty thermocouple can cause many different problems for your water heater. A thermopile looks like a thermocouple, and does a similar job - sensing temperature, such as a gas flame to function as a safety device. Installation steps for installing a replacement thermocouple are simple, and are made easier by looking carefully at how and where the old thermocouple was installed and where and how its tubing was routed between the gas valve and the flame sensor position. What type of thermocouple use for mini flare? This allows you to pull down the gas tubes as well as the thermocouple from the gas valve. If a thermocouple is used you'll see a small copper tube (or in some devices an electrical wire) connecting the flame sensor to the valve.The thermocouple and safety shutoff do double duty, since on burners that use a pilot flame the thermocouple senses the pilot flame and won't permit the So your safest bet in fixing it properly is to call Scott English Plumbing so that your water heater can be checked thoroughly and request for a water heater replacement. After all, the thermocouple is in a flame. Don't be afraid to un-coil the tubing into a more straight line to ease installation of the device. I am GUESSING that they lead to a couple of spill switches that might be located on the draft hood of your heater or right near the burner opening.Those devices sense dangerous spillage of flue gases, are usually heat-activated, and some models require that the switch be manually-reset by pressing a reset button on the switch after it has cooled.See details at FLUE GAS SPILL SWITCH TRIPPING & RESET, Thank you for your answer of 5/2/19 to my on going problem. Burner will not light or remain lit. I have used canned air to clean and pushed and pulled everything. This … Use the dishwashing liquid solution to check the connections around the pilot light and burner. The most common issues include tripped breakers and bad heating elements. Make sure the problem is not your ' Water Heater Pilot LIght ', before you attempt this repair. GAS LP & NATURAL GAS SAFETY HAZARDS Watch out: Do not turn on nor try to use gas fired equipment if there is a gas leak. Pilot Tube. The thermocouple is provided with the connecting tubing coiled neatly in a package. ). If it doesn’t sense that the pilot light is on, it doesn’t turn on the gas. This signal keeps the gas valve open. Reinstall the access covers and slowly turn up the temperature until the burner is lit. The manufacturer of the heating appliance in which the thermocouple is used will provide installation instructions that must be followed for safe, reliable use of the heating appliance. The good news is that this component is fairly inexpensive and simple to repair. In general we think that thermocouples are less accurate and less sensitive temperature sensors than thermistors, but these low-cost and reliable temperature sensing devices have been used successfully in heating equipment such as gas fired furnaces, boilers, and water heaters for decades. It accomplishes this by continually monitoring whether the pilot light is burning and by providing an immediate “fail safe” by shutting down gas supply system when the pilot lights fails to burn. Check for debris blockage right at the pilot light, inside the gas tube between the pilot light and the gas control valve, and using a fine wire (don't scratch or enlarge the orifice) try cleaning the orifice at the pilot light itself. It is important to make sure that there are no leaks on your water heater after you replace the thermocouple. Gas water heater troubleshooting is best begun by referring to your owner's manual. Therefore, if you have no hot water or have issues with the pilot light or burner, you may need a replacement thermocouple. [Click to enlarge], The thermocouple on gas fired heating appliances is mounted to sense the presence of a gas flame or gas pilot flame. They are reliable and effective to safely light the main burners of a gas furnace, boilers, or water heaters. If it isn’t working properly or the water heater reading is not accurate, it might be time to clean the thermocouple on the water heater. Northridge, CA 91324 USA Tel: (818) 886-3755 also DBA. Rather than trying to unfasten the thermocouple inside the water heater’s burning chamber, it’s easier to remove the whole burner and thermocouple assembly. I don't have any trouble lighting the pilot. The connecting copper tubing length for a thermocouple is not usually critical, but the tubing must be long enough to reach without stress from the connection at the gas valve to the thermocouple's sensor mount in the gas flame or pilot flame. Low gas pressure – check as described on p 18. InspectAPedia tolerates no conflicts of interest. The thermocouple connecting tubing has been mechanically damaged, crimped, cut or nicked. However, unless you are capable of doing this, it is better to call for professional help. Open the gas supply to the unit and light the pilot. Hope someone has some wisdom for me. If after you’ve fully inspected the thermocouple your gas water heater pilot light … We also provide an ARTICLE INDEX for this topic, or you can try the page top or bottom SEARCH BOX as a quick way to find information you need. On 2020-03-28 - by (mod) - gas valve won't open: black wires at the thermocouple? That is a less common problem in my experience.Lastly, it's possible that the defect is in a gas flow or clog problem in the pilot light itself. But thermopiles sense temperature without having to contact the object being monitored. The thermocouple and pilot tubes should go into the gas valve. You can think that you have fully screwed in the connector that pushes the end of the thermocouple into the bottom of the gas valve but it may not actually be fully seated. Replacement thermocouples using "universal mounting" include clips and fittings that will work on most gas fired heaters and water heaters. Most of the problems with a Rheem gas water heater will be related to the FVIR lockout. Try replacing it and be sure the new one is properly placed. Replaced the thermocouple on my elderly Williams dual wall heater a couple of years ago. Type K (chromel-alumel) are the most-widely-used general purpose thermocouple, Vacuum & controlled atmospheres, high temperature kilns, ovens, furnaces, gas turbine engine exhaust monitor, metal industries: aluminum & smelting, Heat treatment, process control, semi-conductor, glass industries, metal industries: ferrous & non-ferrous, Food monitoring, environmental sensors, used in strong magnetic fields, The thermocouple sensor is not properly located and secured in position in the gas flame. It senses when the pilot light is on. Replacing the thermocouple is fairly simple to do and requires only a few wrenches to allow you to remove the burner. Within the burner compartment just in front of the pilot light you will see a small cylindrical metal, this is the thermocouple. Thermocouples are used as safety devices that will shut off equipment by shutting down the LP or natural gas fuel supply on some gas-fired heating equipment such as gas fired furnaces, gas fired heating boilers, and gas fired water heaters. Calibration types for thermocouples are specified by the American Society for Testing and Materials(ASTM) according to their temperature versus EMF characteristics in accordance with ITS-90,in standard or special tolerances. Type K thermocouples are widely used in industrial applications involving water, mild chemical solutions, hospitals and the food industry. Typically the gas control is pushed-in or held in a spring-loaded position to force gas through the pilot light assembly to permit manually lighting the pilot flame. 1. I'm not aware of any thermocouple on gas appliances that use a flare fitting. This means that if the thermocouple goes bad, there is no way of detecting if the pilot light is burning or not. When the pilot light on a gas water heater won't stay lit, the problem is usually a faulty thermocouple. KarenTake a look (and post a photo) of where those two black wires lead. Stopped igniting, was a GE gas water heater. Pilot doesn’t light. Do you know that it is one of the important components of your water heater? If it goes out when you release the button, then the component has worn out. TonyIt would be unusual to get a batch of bad thermocouples such that you have to keep replacing them because of an inherent defect in the thermocouple itself. It’s one of the reasons … To replace the old thermocouple simply slide it out and push in the replacement. Thank you. Any advice. Separately a Gaffers & Sattler appliance company still does business in Murray UT. http://www.americanwaterheater.com/support/manuals/nat_tc_instr.pdf, Our recommended books about building & mechanical systems design, inspection, problem diagnosis, and repair, and about indoor environment and IAQ testing, diagnosis, and cleanup are at the. Some common problems for all types of Hot Water Heaters are, pressure relief valves, leaks, sediment, drain valves, anode rods and dip tubes. How to Replace a Thermocouple on a Hot Water Heater. Inadequate combustion air - very dangerous, can be fatal, Dirt on the equipment burner, thermocouple, connections, wiring, Dirt or debris or insects (spiders) clogging the pilot orifice or pilot light gas tube. If you are looking for parts for Gaffers and Sattler equipment check with Maytag. The burner gas line and pilot gas line connections can be unscrewed using open-end wrenches. This valve also makes it easier to empty the tank and move it to a different location. will about any thermocouple work on all ventless fire places mine is majestic v32. That's not an explanation that i understand. It's better not to have a lot more to me than you need just for Simplicity. thermocouple was replaced on my air furnace - Bruce 11/17/12, Bruce, I think the problem I had was with the igniter, needed to be cleaned. The other end of the thermocouple's tubing connects to a port on the gas regulator or gas valve But not all of these systems use a thermocouple. You can get injured if you don’t do this, so, take precautions. The most common problems; symptoms and causes. The thermocouple is part of the pilot assembly where one end is always in contact with the pilot flame while the other side is connected to the gas control valve. Northridge, CA 91324 USA Tel: (818) 886-3755 also DBA, [1] American Water Heater, "Thermocouple Replacement Instructions - Natural Gas Models (All Models Except 30T)", American Water Heater, Johnson TN, Website: http://www.americanwaterheater.com, Tel: 1-800 999-9515, (no address given online) retrieved 10/23/2013, original source: If the thermocouple goes bad, the pilot light might work, but the primary burners will not operate. insulate it? I seem to remember reading something about them being for safety or something. Thermocouples are pretty much a generic replacement item. The nuts should be hand tightened to ensure that the threads are not stripped. The following are things you need to do to bring it back to top shape. Thermocouple's indicating end not fully secured into the gas valve. While the standing pilot gas ignition systems are prone to problems with the proper maintenance, the standing pilot gas ignition systems are reliable for many years. A less likely problem is a failed gas control valve. … T. his thermocouple has a little side thing on the connector that has two black wires. When heated the effect of the two dissimilar metals in contact with one another is the production of an electrical current. It's a usually reliable device that works in conjunction with a standing pilot, which is the little flame that, like the Olympic torch, burns while the appliance is in operation. Or, the power source might have disconnected. Check for these other causes of loss of the gas pilot flame. Now I cannot get the pilot to even try to light. The drain valve: This valve is located near the bottom of the tank and is used to remove sediment that may have settled in the system. (Gaffers and Sattler was an appliance brand (kitchen ranges, heating equipment, air conditioning) owned by Maytag and actually preceded "Maytag" as a company name.The Gaffers Sattler and Maytag Washing Machine Company was founded in 1893 by businessman Frederick Maytag. The standing pilot gas valve, the thermocouple, and the thermopile are all time-tested components. G&S cooking ranges were identified as a subsidiary of MagicChef in 1969. Then the heater works cycling on and off as you would expect. Don't confuse a thermocouple (discussed here) with a different type of temperature sensor, solid-state THERMISTORS used in thermostats. the building i am trying to heat just when used gets so cold i think the thermocouple gets to cold to stay on, what do i do. Typically the thermocouple sensor is mounted right in the flame of the pilot light on gas fired heating equipment. Reinstall the access covers and slowly turn up the temperature until the burner is lit. Photo at left: red arrows indicate the thermocouple tubing and assembly; blue arrows indicate the pilot light tubing & assembly on a horribly rusted Holland brand gas furnace. And testing for leaks just requires a small brush and dishwashing liquid. A bad replacement thermocouple or thermocouple tubing that was bent, kinked, damaged during installation, Thermocouple not properly connected at the control, e.g. Thermostat: The thermostat in water heaters is a thermoelectric device known as thermocouple, and is made up of a strip of two metals. Use the dishwashing liquid solution to check the connections around the pilot light and burner. To test if the problem is with the thermocouple, try to relight the pilot. ©2021 Scott English Plumbing Inc. All Rights Reserved. The gas water heater thermocouple is a safety device. Here, courtesy of Pyrosales, an Australian provider of thermocouple devices, is a complete list of the types of thermocouples and their applications. When I reached out to water heater technicians, most wouldn't want to fix it because it was so old. The two most common defects I have seen that give trouble with a thermocouple are. the sensor connector not fully screwed-in. Poor Electrical Wiring. Take care not to damage the igniter wire and to reconnect it just as it was. But not all of these systems use a thermocouple. If your appliance has a flexible electrical wire that connects to a sparking device at the burner or burner pilot, the appliance has no continuously-on pilot - you do not have to light the pilot manually. Gas water heater problems with performance issues Typical gas storage water heaters tend to outperform same size electric storage water heaters. Thermocouples are also used on gas logs and in gas fireplaces or similar devices. For example Sid Harvey's Dyna-Couple universal mounting thermocouple, sold in lengths from 18" to 48" will replace Honeywell, Robertshaw, Penn Baso, White-Rodgers and other thermocouples. A thermocouple works to produce a small electrical voltage output by connecting two dissimilar metals or two wires forming a measurement junction at the sensor tip of the device. Troubleshooting low performance, insufficient hot water, pilot light problems, improper gas combustion, issues with the pilot light, thermocouple, gas burner, venting, and other common issues. The gas water heater thermocouple is the safety element that is designed to "inform" a gas control valve is the pilot flame ON or OFF, and open or close the gas to the main burner. (1) ' Water Heater Pilot Light Issues ' - If the pilot light goes out, the water heater won't work. But do not nick, kink, nor make sharp bends in the tubing. The installation detail can vary depending on your water heater manufacturer. Do n't confuse a thermocouple of any thermocouple on gas fired heating is! Places mine is majestic v32 means that if the circuit breaker has tripped you are for! 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To help select a replacement model when i reached out to water.! - gas valve wo n't stay lit, it is not lit the gas supply and the. Or just got dirty or corroded FVIR lockout, thermopile and thermistor in more detail on electronic... Burner compartment just in front of the pilot light is also out and push in the flame path insuffi combustion. Take care not to damage the igniter wire and to reconnect it just as it was so old thermocouples heating! Not stripped this repair outlined at thermocouple TYPES what it is time call... Be cleaned heater troubleshooting is best begun by referring to your local home center hardware! Devices used on gas logs and in gas fireplaces or similar with advertisers, products, services!